I do agree there somewhat.

I like new content as much as the next guy, but the content that exists is currently sufficient IMO whereas there are a number of missing elements that would be nice to see simulated.

Of course I have no idea about their internal operation. Could well be that the content guys have zero to do with the physics guys, so pumping out more content doesn't necessarily mean that other areas are not being worked on. That's likely the case since it's not a one man show.

Quote from titanLS :

Dave, and everyone, I'm curious as to your thoughts about induced understeer in iracing to correct oversteer

I think there's already a thread here discussing that very thing. If I wasn't lazy I'd find it and link it for you.

Nah you can correct it, you just have to be real fast, accurate, and a bit preemptive sometimes - just like RL. in LFS you can sort of think about what you're going to do whilst at 90 degrees to the road, then slowly and lazily make some corrections which always seem to work.

Mild hyperbole perhaps, but real life(tm) is really not as forgiving as LFS, fact is it's closer to what iRacing does to you. I'm not saying it's 100% correct, but I suspect it's closer to being empirically correct, especially the solstice. I don't have experience in a downforce car so I can't really speak as much to that. - F1 thrashing not withstanding. I'd like to hear Tristan's comment on the replay Dave posted.

edit: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGrqebP-xGU

Looks like much harder work than in LFS.

I also think, by the way, that comparing the two sims in terms of drivability is tough with LFS's setup issues and ridiculous variability of parameters. I wish we could use LFS's model using the same car on an iRacing track, at least that would reveal some things.

Last edited by Ball Bearing Turbo, Thu 16 Jul 2009, 18:43.

Ok, well I decided to go the motherboard / CPU route as well... in for a penny/in for a pound etc.

Just thought I'd mention something that I did NOT expect - I backed up all my important crap, and proceded to swap out the boards. What really shocked me was that switching from an AMD to an Intel system, I didn't have to reinstall the OS (Vista). I did the swap, and the bloody system just booted right up on the existing OS.... Was able to install all the new drivers and whatnot with no issue. I'm wondering if that is an improved functionality in Vista since that really was not possible on XP.

Just thought I'd share that, I thought it was cool and saved me a lot of time. One of these days I probably should do a fresh install anyway, but kind of waiting for Win7 first.

Heh, interesting thoughts.

One thing you'll note is that in the RL videos posted; the driver is reacting before the car really has any appreciable yaw happening because he can feel the event coming. Especially in the last video, one more split second and that guy would be facing the wrong way in a real hurry.

Personally I've unintentionally drifted around corners in the Mazda in testing more times than I can recall, and I always actually had the opposite reaction to you - I was starting to wonder if the car was TOO forgiving, now I don't know what to think. In any event, your replay shows nothing out of the ordinary in my view... the car started to go away on you and you corrected to much too late and it's all over.

I could just as easily record a replay tonight throwing the thing through corners like a dummy and my thought would be that it's too forgiving.

I don't know if throwing an F1 car around at high speed equates much to throwing the Mazda around trying to do the same thing; too many things are different for that to be remotely conclusive. Find a video of some sap doing the same in the Mazda.

I would also expect a pretty major loss of grip when yawing a downforce car since wings don't work well sideways.

edit: don't forget that driving around in LFS with a LOCKED DIFF for a number of years has probably skewed our perception of turn in more than we'd like to admit around here.

^This

By the way Jeff, the SRF has an open diff.

Doesn't the cold body turn you off?

Hogwash. Should come out of the pits with ambient temp tires and have to worry about your pressures properly.

No more EZmode.

What happens to them specifically?

One point one could make about slushboxes is that they can, simply by their design, handle more torque throughput than a typical manual design in a road car.

Heh, yeah, they should take into account your dominant racing style :P. If you've never run an oval race, and have the road stuff, that should count IMO towards applicable content. You can't run both series' without being seriously dedicated.

Quote from mrodgers :

It matters not. I have yet to drive a normal road car that can shift faster than one can with a manual and clutch. My Altima takes forever as it lingers holding RPM before it finally decides to shift. My Mazda is pretty good, but it still can't shift faster than someone with a clutch and manual provided that person can drive.

WTF?

You must not be talking at WOT. I've never driven an autobox that wouldn't slam into gear at WOT. Hell, I used to have a 1986 Pontiac 6000. 2.8L V6, FWD boat. The roads on Vancouver Island get really slick for some reason in the rain, and it's spin the tires during a 1-2 shift in the rain (WOT obviously). Most manual drivers only shift like their ass is on fire if they're trying to go real fast for some reason, so compare apples to apples. In that situation, any auto I've ever seen shifts instantly and TBH rather violently.

Yeah from my understanding there is a discrepancy between what benchmarks report and what actually happens in gaming.

Quote from Shotglass :

so im afraid with any machine available in the next year or so that doesnt require you to sell your soul to be able to justify the expense youre going to have to live with the germans from crytek showing you that your epenis is in fact rather small

ROFL!

There's some sig material right there

Fair enough; but those maniacs doing that test you linked were running some crazyass resolution (2560x14*10^32 or so I think). The 4 ATi GPUs had a hard time on ultra everything at that res, I bet that at earthly resolutions I could run it reasonably well. Either that or Germans just aren't efficient as you think.

AoC is DX10 is probably one of the best looking games out there right now me thinks!

I run at 1680x1050 (22"), with a clone output via component to a 42" HDTV. Not sure if the latter affects the framerate or not, I suspect not though. In truth I can run most things pretty good, but I'm not happy with performance in Crysis or Age of Conan. Bioshock (demo) runs good.

I've never been able to run anything with super high AA settings. Typically 2X or sometimes 4x. LFS is the exception, I max out every single setting in the nVidia control panel (texture quality, AA, AF, LOD blah blah) and LFS runs at retarded frames, usually around 200.

@dadge - I've been an AMD supporter since my first 386 machine, and I think they've made some awesome stuff. It also seems that they're at the end of the line for the time being. I was stubborn about it last year and figured a dual core clocked at 3.2ghz (windsor) would be great but I didn't look into it enough. Everything I'm reading right now seems to indicate that Intel's product makes mine look like it's running backwards in the gaming world.

Hm, will take a more in depth look at that after I stuff my face.

Problem is I have an inherant need to run games at max settings; it causes me psychological greif if I have to turn things down.

I think the graphics card is quite good now, and it's an improvement but I'm still not happy with the overall performance yet. I have to turn off "screenspace ambient occlusion" whatever the hell that means in Age of Conan, and with it on it quite drastically change the look of the game. I can only run around 20FPS +/- 5 with it on, which pisses me off.

I may muster some patience up though. I've got a week to myself in mid July, and will need to be enjoying a new platform by then however. Kinda tempted to just drop the dough for an i7 and not be having this conversation again next year. I should've listened to you last year and got the e8500 then.

edit: Keep in mind I don't give a hoot about encoding things, multitasking or anything other than gaming in terms of performance. Everything else works fine as far as I am concerned.

Ok so it was the card. I exchanged it for a new one and it works like a charm.

Reasonable improvement indeed, but I get the feeling that the card has a hell of a lot of headroom with my CPU being archaic. The fan barely spools up at all, and my CPU usage is pinned on 100% in Age of Conan for example.

Thus, my next question:
Is an E8500 still great bang for the buck? Gaming performance is my biggest concern, so I'm not needing 4 cores from my understanding.

It also appears that the first gen Core2s whooped my AthlonX2 6400+ bad enough, so the 2nd gen ones like the E8500 should smash it's face in quite brutally - correct?

I did check that link you sent as well Shot, thanks.
Interesting stuff there.

Man this thread has almost gotten me busted browsing at work; I actually spluttered trying to hold in laughter at your story Mike

(If anyone heard me I'd have had to pretended it was a sneeze...)

Anyway, one thing that is always awkward and happens to me every bloody day is similar to the OP's 1st situation. I work in a small company, and numerous times a day it's not uncommon to walk to down the hall whilst someone is walking the opposite direction. The first time you see person X in said fashion; no problem "Hey X wussup?" etc. But then 40 mins later the exact same thing can happen, and it can happen a few times per day. Usually after a few you might grunt or say "mrphmr" or both pretend to look at papers or peer into offices to avoid eye contact with the other person, because there's nothing left to say.

Heh, indeed there's MORE than plenty of moronic drivers out there that seem to be able to drive a ... stick. I guess it probably just isn't as hard as you're making it sound then.

Quote from BigPeBe :

Actually for what I believe, the fastest drag cars have some kind of manual transmissions. Automatic can perform really good on dragstrip, but the fastest ones I believe use a hydraulic transmission, with usually 3 different gears which are changed manually. Tho this is more like semi-auto, so to judge if it's auto or manual is a different story then. But well at least it's a "stick shift".

Yeah I understand your point about some of the higher level pro series, but bottom line is that very very few people that are serious about drag racing would be using a manual transmission that is the type in a road car (having to clutch). Manual shifting yes - but not the same type of trans.

Quote from Glenn67 :

and you can't engine brake with them. ...

If you mean at very slow speeds, then I agree - but many newer transmissions will automatically lock up and engine brake on a steep grade. It just senses when speed is increasing despite the throttle position.

Quote from speed1 :

I honestly can think of no situation where an auto tranny performs better than a manual, .

Drag racing.

Quote from mrodgers :

I I found the manual lovely because it was much easier to stick it in gear and let the idle pull along at a pace to keep me from starting and stopping.

Eh? You can do this in an auto as well.

Quote :

My 2 year old Mazda Tribute (that's the family runner I mentioned I bought for the wife) is the first automatic I've driven that if I put it in 2nd gear from a start, it actually started in 2nd gear (useful in snow/ice.)

My father's 1988 Mazda MPV minivan does the exact same thing. Even in 88, some of the imported auto trans's were really not too bad in terms of control and intelligence. It also had a delayed upshift mode and whatnot, not bad for 1988.

Now that the yanks (:razz have cought up a little bit, autos are nothing like they used to be. I took a Dodge Avenger on vacation last year and it was pretty good - a 6 speed auto which you can have in manual "mode", where you just flick the shifter left/right to shift down/up. It's no DCT obviosly but it's not even the same category as the transmissions of old. And it hauls ass, first gear is ridiculously short.

Of course, I prefer manuals as well because I love to drive. But I think some of the arguments are a bit over of the top and quite dodgy in this thread heh.

Last edited by Ball Bearing Turbo, Fri 29 May 2009, 18:05.

Guys, stop making fun of Kartor.

Lest ye forget his extensive ball collection!

Quote from DragonCommando :

That is usualy caused by Three things.

Either the card wasn't seated properly, although this ususaly just causes a no-post situation.

Or the Card is defective and will probably do odd things like that all the time.

Or the last one which is something in your PC doesn't like the new card, I had that problem with an old Compaq, but ususaly custom built computers don't run into this problem often.

I'd say exchange the card for an identical one and see what happens, if it still does the same thing, tear down the computer and put it back together one part at a time untill something goes wrong. Then you will know what is wrong.

Yeah I left a post in the EVGA forums, we'll see what happens - I'm wondering if I should upgrade the BIOS as a new one just came out this year for my board. I put the card back in (GTX260 Core216) last night, and the system does (did) actually boot up fine, just as some odd resolution (possibly 640x480 or 800x600) and with odd lines and shit. But I could actually use it no problem. Once it was booted, Vista decided to install drivers, as it di recognize the card as a GTX260. When it rebooted however, once the windows loading screen was up for a few minutes it would just give me a BSOD and reboot.... So whatever Vista installed is interacting with the base issue making it so the machine won't boot anymore.

I'm thinking either bad card or yet another fecking mobo incompatibility, pending a BIOS upgrade. But that's bullshit having to mess with the BIOS imo.

Quote from Shotglass :

this might be of interest to you
http://enthusiast.hardocp.com/ ... 0NCwxLCxoZW50aHVzaWFzdA==

it has to be said since the gf8 came out all following cards havent improved by an impressive amount
so while your card certainly isnt the fastest i doubt upgrading it would give improve things by a degree thats even remotely appropriate for the price of that upgrade

so that leaves us with your cpu which isnt exactly fast compared to the core 2 architecture

I will check out that link in a few mins here, thanks Shotty.

So the Core 2 architecture would blow away my AMD Windsor?

Edit: EVGA guy says it could be not enough power.... how the hell could it not have enough power in 2D mode? I would suspect that if my PS was going to give out on it that it would happen in 3D mode right?

Last edited by Ball Bearing Turbo, Wed 27 May 2009, 19:24.

Any idea why my screen is garbled when I first boot?

*sigh*

Why do problems always happen when I try to upgrade things :doh:

I can sort of see my boot screen but it has wierd lines and shit and doesn't take up the whole screen. Haven't left it to see what happens, so the old card is in right now.

Ah, cool I never thought of trying that (checking the CPU usage). I guess I would assume it works that way?

Cheers for that info.